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curious questions!
I had made a blog post not too long agao, answering a question about how I defined a pagan.
And I answered with my opinion, about a generic idea, including grounding for ritual, earth as diety, pantheon used as alli, and some sort of varitaion of harm none.
My post was reblogged with a facinating comment, that went against everything I had beleived.
Which made me start thinking about my own opinion.
I thought on it for days, unable to come to a conclusion on my circling thoughts.
So, I have quite a big facebook group with many many witches of many many different paths. I gave them my question, and ended the night with an amazing discussion about what a pagan was.
I thought I would share.
The names have been edited to protect privacy, except for mine of course.
I hope this conversdation facinates you as much as it did me:)
Dreadgoddess
· · Share · Tuesday at 2:27pm via mobile
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T.B.: ummm certainly not … the word pagan means country dweller and usually a country dweller farms and works by sun moon and starsTuesday at 2:30pm· ·
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C.E.: If it is more of an earthly experiences than i would say closer to Druid, do you pray to the deity?Tuesday at 2:31pm·
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B.T.: that’s an interesting question.. pagan is such an open and generic term, there’s many definitions… but… I’d be really curious to see how one would define it who doesn’t do those thingsTuesday at 2:37pm· · 1
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T.B.: it is actually an interesting question :) @casey was that a question to me ?Tuesday at 2:38pm·
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C.E.: No, it was a question to her, technically i believe Druids are pagans but i think their is a branch their!Tuesday at 2:39pm· · 2
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A.A.: For the sky-clad rituals. Duh! ;)Tuesday at 2:44pm·
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T.B.: yeah… so in honesty i know pagans and hoopy frou spiritualists who dont ground… and guuuurl does it get messy groundfing is what smart pagans doTuesday at 2:48pm·
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S.G.: In essence, I’d say no— however it is the same as I suppose any other religion that has people who do not /practice/ their belief or work with their religion, but believes in it without actually doing the magical path.
Like a Christian who is Christian without going to church or reading the Bible. That’s how I’d view it.
You don’t get the full experience of it though, in my mind.Tuesday at 3:10pm· · 2 -
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B.T.: I agree with you Shae 100%… however doesn’t “believe in harm none or earth as entity” is what strikes me odd. To me that’s the very base of pagan beliefs, whether you practice it or not.Tuesday at 3:14pm· · 1
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S.G.: It’d be on the same basis of the Christian “Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Practicing what you preach does not always come into play, unfortunately.Tuesday at 3:27pm· · 1 -
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C.L.: The word “pagan” did not refer to a religion. It referred to people who did not live in the cities. Those people practiced whatever. There was nothing standard that made them “pagan” except that they were considered hicks because they weren’t “civilized” (Latin “civitas” = “city”). There are many today who see themselves still in that strain or heritage. So it’s going to be pretty difficult to define or limit what is considered pagan. If you take the working definition through most of the Medieval period, anyone who isn’t a Christian, Jew or Muslim is a pagan. But then there are some folks who fall into that category who would not (and don’t want to) consider themselves pagan (most Buddhists, American Indians, etc.).Tuesday at 3:27pm· · 4
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A.B.: ”and harm none”, is NOT part of the generic pagan mindset, it is from the Wiccan Creed, specific to the Wiccan traditions.Tuesday at 4:18pm· · 3
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B.T.: harm none is a generic mindset for most religions lol.. but yeah specifically “harm none” is from the Wiccan Creed.
and I’m just being debatable for fun… good discussions are always great in my mind and you guys have been awesome ^.^Tuesday at 4:26pm· · 1 -
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A.B.: =) Yes Bee, you are somewhat right, lol. I am not so sure about that being the tennant “religions” these days, lol. The concept of “do what thou will, and harm none”, is Wiccan, and not all Witches will say that they follow that particular creed. I know those who would say that they will do whatever it takes to make their own life comfortable, not intentionally harming another, unless it to protect their own, but not as concerned about anyone else’s outcome.Tuesday at 4:36pm· · 1
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Q.Q.: Pagan is encompassing many religions. It sounds like you are describing someone who practices just witchcraft, which does not require working with gods or any “rules” to follow. So I say someone who practices just witchcraft is not Pagan.Tuesday at 4:48pm· · 2
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B.T.: back to what Thomas said earlier… practicing witchcraft without grounding kinda makes me cringe lolTuesday at 5:06pm·
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S.W.: If you’re not raising energy for magickal work there’s really no reason to ground.
Someone could choose to simply work magick with the Elementals or Land Spirits vs a God or Goddess.
Harm none is generally considered to be Wiccan, but almost all faiths have some sort of Golden Rule.
Not seeing Earth as being alive….ummm…perhaps they don’t see her as sentient? She’s certainly a living organism taken as a whole.
I know some folks that follow a Wiccan path but don’t work magick and Witches that work magick but don’t follow the Wiccan, or any other, spirituality. There are also plenty of magickal workers, of different stripe, that aren’t Tree hugging Dirt worshipers.
As Chris said above it’s hard to define. Some do identify as pagan simply because they’re not Children of the Book. I’ve never heard of an athiest/agnostic Pagan though.
If this person is working magick but not grounding they really should reconsider it. Not grounding can be hazardous to your health. -
Tuesday at 5:38pm· · 2
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T.S.: According to a couple of my Feri teachers the wiccan rede is not part of Feri. Is Feri not pagan?Tuesday at 8:41pm·
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P.H.: ^ Feri’s Pagan, but not Wiccan. Wicca is a particular subsection of the whole that is Paganism.Tuesday at 8:58pm·
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P.H.: “Atheist/Agnostic Pagan”? As is, perhaps, someone who views deities as archetypes but not as independently-existing beings? Or as manifestations of something wholly incomprehensible that may or may not objectively exist?Tuesday at 9:01pm·
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P.H.: but, addressing the initial question, “Work with a goddess for god” seems a prerequisite in some manner, tho it could be combined with “earth as entity”, but regardless, some forms of this would be required for it to qualify as a religious practice and therefore “Pagan” (tho I’m still not ruling out the idea of atheist or agnostic Paganism here). The other two, grounding and “harm none”, I do not see as a requirement. But I’m weird.Tuesday at 9:05pm·
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T.S.: Right Feri is Pagan, but they don’t subscribe to harming none, nor do they ground the energy after ritual. I think that Pagan is an umbrella term that includes many types of people. So I am wondering if you might want to refine the question Ella, I am not sure that you might be looking for something else.Tuesday at 9:12pm·
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Ella LaRose Wow! So many interesting thoughts on this!
I will address my opinion tomorrow when I have more time.
But for now, the question is because I gave a response on my blog about how I defined paganism and I stated that it was s broad umbrella of faiths bit the for my knowledge MOST pagans beleuve a few key points. Grounding before ritual, in some form as to be energetically ready, and I an saying ritual, not daily practice, the belief in a goddessgod or pantheon, and the understanding that the earth is deity of some form and it is our duty to love and care take of her.
I was then met with a commentary that has lead me down acfacinating road of questions.
Saying pagans do not all ground, believe or worship god goddess, of care about the earth.
Which made me start asking, ‘well, then what IS a pagan?’
Hence my questions to you:)Tuesday at 10:49pm· -
Ella LaRose When I talk about grounding, I mean the pre ritual grounding. The ability to clear your vessel, your body, of negative energy, create a positive place to draw magical energy in in order to direct it to your intended focus.
I look at grounding the way I would look at cooking. I don’t clean my kitchen everyday before I cook a meal. But, if it is yule and I am serving the family a special dinner, I will spend the morning making sure my kitchen, my house is spotless. Cause I wouldn’t want to serve something special in a home that is ready to to honor that intention.
The same goes for magic. I don’t ground everyday before I do my daily practice at my alter. But if I am doing a ‘ritual’ with a full circle cast to direct energy toward a magical intention, you can bet I am going to ground first. I don’t want my magic tainted by negative energy hiding inside. Ritual for me, is special.
The same goes for working with a goddess or a god, I work with them, ask for their help, their guidance. I call on different ones for different purposes. My beleif, as a pagan, is that there is a spiriual energy outside of myself, surrounding me, that I can tap into, I use the name to get my own self able to tap into certain aspects of that energy. Yemay for guidance with mothering and compassion issues. Lakshmi for intentions based on good fortune. Hecate for issues involving shadow work and heartache.
I know they are all one, come from one source, but their names have created identity and that identity, or personality holds power that I can tap into, power from a collective conciouse that has been built for years.
I don’t know of a single pagen that doesn’t tap into these things, energy for filling and clearing self, god/goddess aspect for guidance and focused intentions.
And I have never heard of a pagan that doesn’t beleive in some form, any form of earth as deity.
But, I am a small person, in a small bubble in a big world. I know there are many ways to kneel and kiss the ground. I am now just curious of what pagans are out there, that don’t do these things, what is their traditions? What is their tradition based on? What are their beleif structures? How do they practice?Yesterday at 9:12am·
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